Agenda item

The meeting recommenced at 8.20pm.

(Councillor Clive Hooker declared a personal interest in Agenda Item 4(2) by virtue of the fact that he had been lobbied on the matter. As his interest was personal and not prejudicial or a disclosable pecuniary interest, he determined to remain to take part in the debate and vote on the matter.  However he would vacate the Chair for the item and Councillor Paul Bryant would take his place.)

(Councillor Paul Bryant in the Chair)

1.       The Committee considered a report (Agenda Item 4(2)) concerning Planning Application 17/00190/ADV in respect of five directional fascia board signs for the Ibex Inn, Chaddleworth.

2.       In accordance with the Council’s Constitution, Grahame Murphy, applicant/agent and Councillor Clive Hooker, Ward Member, addressed the Committee on this application.

3.       Derek Carnegie introduced the report to Members, which took account of all the relevant policy considerations and other material considerations and the Officer recommendation was to refuse advertisement consent.  The item had been called in by Councillor Hooker as he was of the opinion that refusal would not support trade for the public house or the village. 

4.       Derek Carnegie emphasised that there was a balance between supporting local businesses and protecting the Area of Natural Beauty (AONB).  He was concerned that approval of the application would set a precedent as it would lead to a cumulative impact on the AONB.  The planning authority had a great deal of sympathy with public houses in the rural area but it had a duty to protect the AONB.  He added that an application to place brown signs adjacent to highways signage would be viewed more positively.  Therefore, as the application currently stood, there was a strong recommendation to the Committee to refuse the application.

5.       Grahame Murphy in addressing the Committee raised the following points:

·     The objection came about as the Planning Officer had misplaced the proposed location of one of the signs.

·     This Committee had been kind enough to grant planning permission to the Ibex and enabled the adjacent houses to be sold in order to fund the redevelopment of the public house.

·     As a result, a considerable amount of money had been spent on the redevelopment of the Ibex.

·     They had spoken to all the residents in the village and held two meetings, each of which had been attended by over 70 people and everyone was in support of the application.

·     The Ibex was not able to draw on passing trade due to its location and it was difficult to find, which was why they required the five signs to help patrons to find it. 

·     He asked the Committee to approve the application as so many rural public houses were closing.  The Ibex had only reopened in December 2016 and could not rely on the trade of the 400 people resident in the village so it was vital to attract passing trade.

6.       Councillor Hilary Cole asked Mr Murphy why they had been resistant to the erection of the brown signs.  My Murphy assured her that they were not resistant to them and had written two letters to the Planning department requesting costing for them but had not received a reply.  He had managed to obtain some 2014 prices from Wiltshire County Council that indicated the cost would be £1,754 plus £200 for the application and the cost for Highways to fit them.  Therefore the total would be in the region of £3-4,000 which the Parish Council could not afford. 

7.       Mr Murphy added that he had been communicating with the Case Officer and Derek Carnegie said he would find out why Mr Murphy had not received a reply.  Paul Goddard suggested that Mr Murphy should discuss this with Glyn Davis in Highways. 

8.       Councillor Jeff Beck recalled that the brown signs were discussed at the site meeting and Derek Carnegie said he would process the details so it was unfortunate that this had not happened.

9.       Derek Carnegie noted that there was no problem with the location of the signs if Sign 2 was relocated to the south, therefore the only issue was in relation to the nature of the signs.

10.   Councillor Howard Bairstow asked if the Council had a monopoly on the manufacture of the signs.  Paul Goddard clarified that this was only the case if the signs were on the highway and did not apply if they were not on it.

11.   Councillor Garth Simpson opined that the proposed signs were large and very busy and asked Mr Murphy if he would be prepared to change any of the detail.  Derek Carnegie intersected that the Council wanted the Ibex to be successful and suggestion that the application was deferred until Highways and Planning Officers had had the opportunity to find a solution.  Councillor Paul Bryant asked Mr Murphy if he was in agreement with this, however he was unable to do so without discussing it with the Parish Council.

12.   Councillor Clive Hooker in addressing the Committee raised the following points:

·       In 2013 the Ibex was a failing public house.  However the Parish Council had been determined to support its retention and they had applied to have it listed as a village asset, which was granted.

·       The Ibex had ceased trading in 2013-14 and was bought by a developer.  The Parish Council worked with the developer and a planning application was developed, which was submitted to Committee in 2014 and it was approved.

·       The Ibex now provided an important facility for the village and the signs were required to help keep it going.

·       This Committee had originally ‘stuck its neck out’ by agreeing the planning application for the public house and it now needed to support this application to help keep the business viable.

13.   During the course of the debate Councillor Dennis Benneyworth declared an interest in the item as he was born to the trade and had frequented the Ibex.  He then asked if the cost of the brown signs could be met by a Members’ bid.  Councillor Hooker responded that he had already posed this question, but had been told it was not possible to do so.

14.   Councillor Jeff Beck expressed the view that he considered it essential for the Committee to continue to support the Ibex and he felt the requirement for the signs should be classed as an exceptional need, which Councillor Hooker opined.

15.   Councillor Adrian Edwards asked if he thought approving this application would set a precedent and other public houses in the rural area would want to do something similar.  Councillor Hooker drew attention to the Swan at East Ilsley, which had been granted permission for similar signs in 2009 and this had not set a precedent.

16.   Councillor Beck commented that Officers would like to support the signs.  The locations for the signs had been agreed.  Derek Carnegie added that planners had a greater responsibility to protect the AONB and they wanted to find a reasonable compromise.  Consequently they would like to find a solution in time for the next Committee using the brown signs.

17.   Councillor Virginia von Celsing noted that the cost of the brown signs seemed unreasonably high and asked if the item was deferred could this be explored, which Derek Carnegie affirmed.

18.   Councillor Hooker asserted that when the item came back to Committee, he did not want the Parish Council to be left with signs that they could not afford.

19.   Councillor Cole asked where the harm was if the signs were not on the highway.  Derek Carnegie clarified that one sign would be acceptable, but not all five.

20.   Councillor Anthony Pick proposed that the item was deferred but said he wanted a guarantee that it would come back to the next Planning Committee meeting.  Derek Carnegie assured him that if it did not come to the next meeting it would be definitely be on the agenda for the following meeting.  The proposal was seconded by Councillor Benneyworth.

21.   Councillor Hooker asked what would happen if it came back to Committee and it did not qualify for a brown sign.  Councillor Bryant assured him that his understanding was that this would be resolved between the applicant and Officers.

22.   The Chairman invited the Committee to vote on Councillor Pick’s proposal, seconded by Councillor Benneyworth to defer the item until a later meeting to enable a solution to be found between Officers and the applicant.  At the vote this was carried.

RESOLVED that the Head of Planning and Countryside be authorised to defer the planning application to allow further discussions to take place.